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Post by jchrisobrien on Jun 10, 2008 10:41:59 GMT -4
The Asur Challenge is about who can do the best with the tools we have, not about winning the Crossroads. I have no personal stake in using my version of the list, and I've enjoyed playing the version we've come up with.
I'm down for whatever version of the list we use.
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Post by zabzonk on Jun 10, 2008 23:19:00 GMT -4
I tried out the Nidal-sanctioned list this past weekend and I did enjoy using it. I squared off against a mono-Slaanesh list with a Keeper and Herald BSB. Opponent snagged first turn and sent the Keeper straight at the unit houseing my Archmage. One Siren later, said unit was charging the kipper and eventually got ripped apart and run down. Shining moment came in turn 6 with the unmolested Shadow Warriors putting the final shooting wound on the Keeper and almost netting me a draw. The list definately requires tactics and strategery and is sorely lacking in any sort of crutch units that I regularly lean heavily upon. ;D The mage in chariot idea that COB mentioned was my idea and I've used it to pretty good effect in the past. Tiranoc chariots are 100% pure unadulterated garbage in my opinion and having the mage hitch a ride at least gives him some mobility and rank-negating mojo. I'd suggest you give it a try. I plan on bringing the Nidal-sanctioned list to a tourney at month's end where I should get a pretty good chance to size it up versus some strong lists.
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Post by vectorawx3 on Jun 13, 2008 10:00:00 GMT -4
So I played against Tomb Kings yesterday.
Skullchucker 20 skellies, spears, shields 10 archers 20 Tomb Guard 20 Tomb Guard 20 Tomb Guard Commands all over the TG, IIRC Scorpion 1 Swarm King, 3Xpriests, usual items
I rocked it. In the end, he had one unit of tomb guard remaining. I had lost 2 chariots, 1 eagle, shadow warriors, and half the swordmasters. Everything else was perfectly intact. Massive victory.
This list should have NO problems with an infantry based tomb-kings army. I can't imagine it'll have trouble against a chariot list, either. But I can't say for sure until I play it.
The infantry is so fast I was able to whip around some woods and get into the rear of one of the TG units. Chariots did nothing buy bounce off of his TG units. (Lion chariot did ok on the charging turn.. then ran away in the second turn.) I put all my plans into taking out the skullchucker first, (using a 1 deep seaguard unit shooting and the default light-magic spells--though luckily fo rme, he misfired and exploded). Then I went after his characters as best as I could. Once I took down one of his mages, I was able to mostly shut down his magic phase. At that point, they become too slow to deal with elven spearmen. As long as you don't charge TG in the front, you kick their asses with spearmen. Chariots flying in are just an added bonus (and make decent mage-in-unit hunters).
The one thing that messed me up was his damn king. He was in a unit of TG. which I managed to charge in the rear (I got 2 rear-charges at TG units, as I had effectively surrounded him by turn 3). First round or combat, I beat up on the unit, severely depleting it. Second round, his king moves back and swings at me, kills 3 elves. Combat elves melts almost all the unit away. Thrid round of combat, I charged the swordmasters in the front. Probably a mistake. Yes, they put wounds on the 3 remaining TK models other than the king (they put one on the king) but the king does his destroyer, hitting 6 elves in base (three in front, 3 in back) almost winning combat! Ugh! Careful of that guy. Luckily, he's slow as shit, so he's easy to avoid. Combat res was not effected by the swordmasters (they wounded as much as they lost), but the curse took them below half when the king popped. No biggie, as I was well ahead.. but still...
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Post by jchrisobrien on Jun 17, 2008 23:32:57 GMT -4
I had another test game against a nurgle daemon legion: Epidermius in a unit of plaguebearers, two units of plaguebearers w/heralds, furies, nurglings, beasts of nurgle, and a flying daemon prince of nurgle, with puke 2 levels of magic.
Daemons scored 1720 pts (including banner, general, TQ) High Elves scored 1173 (including banner, general, TQ)
I was hurt really bad in the beginning: two miscasts, (losing burning gaze and a lvl), the chariot (piece of crap) failing two fear tests, and shadow warriors getting run down my nurglings. His daemon princes puked on both my sea guard and my swordmasters, doing heinous amounts of damage to them.
I did get spears in the front of beasts of nurgle, and a lion chariot in the side. I was doing OK, but the beasts were wounding on 4+ thanks to Tallyjerkface. He wiped out the chariot and almost all the spears, but I did kill 2 of the beasts.
Good news: I shot the heck out of Epidermius's unit, then took him and the unit out with dragon princes. My lone surviving swordmaster charged the daemon prince (yay lion standard!) and did a wound that let me get half points! I almost shot it to death at the end of the game.
I really hate the tiranoc chariot, and would happily trade it for even a regular non-bsb noble on foot. Has anyone had success with it? Has anyone used it agaisnt a non-fear causing army? I can understand wanting to play a challenging list, but so far I feel it's been absolutely worthless, and there have been lots of times where having a fighty character woulld have helped so much more.
To be fair, had I put the chariot near the general in the beginning of the game, I would have passed both fear tests. I'll try to play some games against armies that don't all cause fear, and see if it manages to do anything.
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Post by vectorawx3 on Jun 17, 2008 23:52:03 GMT -4
I've done alright with it. It's a great threat due to it's jmovement range, and can go hunt mages in units in a pinch.
When I played a similar nurgle list, what I did was block up the riders so they never got into combat. Then I did very well shooting Tallyman's unit with bows and such. Just delay the enemy army, NEVER letting it into combat until you kill Epi. I'm sure it'll work. I'll try it next time. I think Nurgle is totally beatable on account of them being so damn slow.
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Post by jchrisobrien on Jun 18, 2008 11:52:20 GMT -4
My strategy against the riders worked pretty well. Spears in the face, and lion chariot in the flank. I used my shields, since the extra attacks aren't worth all that much against T5. They were still very durable, even against so many poisoned attacks. The lion chariot really tipped things, I was winning more combats than I lost against the riders.
I did manage to march block a lot of his army, and I did shoot the heck of out Epi.'s unit. I was able to one punch them with my dragon princes (sweeeet). The herald blocks never saw combat. I just need a little luck taking out his nurgling earlier, and his furies. With those dead, I'm sure my archmage would have stayed alive. That would have guaranteed me a draw right there.
I like to pick on the chariot, but I'll keep using it. I have some more games this weekend, and if I can get a few figures painted in time, I'll use the list at a local tournament next weekend. There should be about 20 people, with some good lists.
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Post by vectorawx3 on Jun 18, 2008 12:00:53 GMT -4
What I did was use an eagle, both chariots, and the dragon princes early on (bottom of turn 1) to wipe out his furies AND nurglings in one shot. He had them fairly close to each other. And being skirmished, I set it up so I could charge in on the nurglings with a chariot and the princes, and overrun into the combat between the furies, eagle, and other chariot. Total ownage. It was easier to do with the princes as they could move through the woods to get the perfect angle on the nurglings. The trick was to make SURE I popped the nurglings (which the lion chariot certainly helped... though the tiranoc chariot may have been just as good.) Of course, yo udon't have to wipe them out... all you have to do is weaken them to the point that the spears guarding the mages will wipe them out with ASF. But yeah.. you totally have the trick: Shoot epi and don't fight the rest. You're braver than I am, fighting those riders! The guy I played had banner of sundering. I assumed the guy you played had it as well. I made the mistake of taking BOTH mages with light magic. Doh! What do you think about fire on the big guy and light on the little guy? If he blocks light, to give me the miscast chance, I'm only throwing 3 dice at burning gaze anyway, so my chances of miscast over 6 turns aren't so bad. And I get to cast fire spells unmolested at his regen units. If he blocks fire, then I get burning gaze off with no problems. Seems like a win-win. Any better combos you can think of against nurgle?
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Post by jchrisobrien on Jun 18, 2008 12:54:38 GMT -4
My opponent didn't have the sundering staff. I took light magic on my lvl4, and fire on my lvl 2. My thinking was that I would only throw 2 dice most of the time, and minimize my light magic miscast chances. If I give light to the little guy, he's pretty much throwing 3 dice all the time, more chances for miscasts.
I want to try shadow magic against nurgle. Pit of shades can drop some daemons quickly, and bypass those pesky wards/regeneration spells. Movement spells are always good. The fear causing spell could be key as well, guaranteeing that people won't get autobroken. I'll put it into action sometimes soon.
Light and fire are clearly the best.
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Post by bdickj on Jun 18, 2008 14:41:40 GMT -4
What Daemon players are you guys playing against? Against this riff-raff Elf army my Nurgle force would emerge victorious. You call this an army? The days of old are over. Now is the time for the Dark Gods to reign! You shall lay twitching in a pool of viscous cancer juice after my slimy tentacles maul the life from your stingy elven asses!
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Post by vectorawx3 on Jun 18, 2008 15:08:19 GMT -4
Well, I played Kevin Coleman who won a GT with his Nurgle in last edition, and with Goblins in this edition... so I'd say he knows what he's doing.
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Post by bdickj on Jun 18, 2008 16:06:30 GMT -4
I scoff at that comment! He needs special characters in his new "fluffy" Nurgle List! He is a shame to the true Father Nurgle! I, on the other hand, win or lose, will leave your pathetic elves with Nurgles rot- Whoever Laughs Last, Laughs the most, my skinny friend!
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Post by vectorawx3 on Jun 18, 2008 17:24:35 GMT -4
Wait.. didn't you say the same thing before out LAST HE vs. Nurgle showdown.
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Post by jchrisobrien on Jun 18, 2008 18:16:17 GMT -4
Yeah, those Nurgle daemons will be tough to beat, if they can ever make it across the board. What's that? They can't because they are slow slow slow and get picked apart unit by unit? Everyone knows high elves are fastidiously clean, and can't abide dirt or disease. You think you'll even get a chance to touch us before you are blasted from this plane? Wake me up when the real threat (Kistler) arrives.
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arash
Junior Member
Posts: 60
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Post by arash on Jun 18, 2008 20:51:33 GMT -4
My Tiranoc Chariot killed a vamp lord the other day. Of course, I was using Warmonger dice.
Hmm, actually I quite like my Tiranoc Chariot, to be honest.
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Post by mantiszero on Jun 19, 2008 20:43:28 GMT -4
I like my Tiranoc Chariot too!!! I am hoping to get some games in this weekend...
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