|
Post by kevinc on Aug 20, 2008 22:47:19 GMT -4
Hi,
I know there are so many complainers of Special Characters out there. The mere mention of Special Characters is always followed by ridiculous claims like 'they are so broken', 'unfair', 'cheesy', 'they should be banned', etc.
There are a lot more broken things in the game than Special Characters. Special Characters are balanced characters that allow players no opportunity to customize their own character with the real broken combinations, such as Nike-Saurus, Arch Lectors on War Alters, and so on...
Special Characters are 100% FAIR, I'm telling you this. I'm not going to debate it here because I know you all have horrible, meaningless points and arguments. Instead, I challenge you to prove it to me...
I bet any complainer or hater of Special Characters out there that they could not win a tournament even if they had the nastiest, most broken Special Character out there, and I'll put my money where my mouth is, in the first ever:
KEVIN COLEMAN SPECIAL CHARACTER CHALLENGE!!!
Here are the rules:
- Win first place, Best Overall at the 2008 Crossroads GT and if you have at least one (1) Special Character included in your army, I will personally award you $200.00 cash.
- If the winner of this tournament does not have a Special Character in their army, then no one attending the 2008 Crossraods GT may ever speak or write anything negative about Special Characters or call for them to be banned at any tournament for the rest of their lives!
Any takers?
Cheers,
Kevin out (btw, when I call people complainers I really mean that in the nicest way possible).
|
|
arash
Junior Member
Posts: 60
|
Post by arash on Aug 21, 2008 1:06:12 GMT -4
I thought Colonial was staunchly against Special Characters.
|
|
|
Post by jaghatai on Aug 21, 2008 7:56:42 GMT -4
If Special Characters are so balanced, why don't the gnoblars have one? ;D
I would love to field Honcho Panza, Honcho Villa, or maybe even Frank "Honch" Honcherello (mounted on a two legged Rhinox...)
|
|
punk
Junior Member
Posts: 87
|
Post by punk on Aug 21, 2008 10:31:50 GMT -4
Kevin,
Not that I have to tell you this, as I am sure that you grasp it very well, but there are special characters that break game mechanics . When you break game mechanics you change the rules, when you change the rules you change the game.
Its not a matter of people complaining about them or not. Sure they are fun for one off games, no doubt about it, its fun to change stuff up.
For the same reason that no one here would be able to get you to join the "SC's are a no-no club", I'm shocked at your attempt to get others to join the opposed camp.
Secondly in order for anyone to win an Overall there are a large number of things that would need to fall into place, to ask anyone to win overall at a specific event would be just silly and would have the cards stacked against them.
I'll admit that I am pretty much against SC's in the tournament seen, as I do not see them necessary, but I respect your view, and have zero intention on changing it.
If anyone does take you up on this, and still does not win overall, I doubt it will change anyones view at all, same as if the person does win, your view will not be changed at all.
|
|
|
Post by kevinc on Aug 21, 2008 11:58:12 GMT -4
-----------Punk, I'm not convinced I could change anyones mind of the subject and really I'm not trying too. What I would like is for players to not plead to ban any type of official unit in the army book for torunaments. It's crazy to me that very powerful units and/or combinations without names are all fine, but you give a powerful piece a name (i.e. special characters) and suddenly they are way OTT and have no place in a tournament.
My feeling is if a player wants to ban units, tournaments are not for that kind of player, that kind of player should stay home and agree with their mates which units should not be allowed, etc in their own games. Tournaments should be about: make your army list from your army book and bring it. Period.
Anyway, regardless of soft scores, if Special Characters are as good as many say they are, they should be able to win overall. How many winning GT armies have included a special character (in tournament that allow them)? To my knowledge zero.
I belive Special Characters are just as balanced as everything else. Disagree? Prove me wrong in my challenge by winning the crossroads with a special character and you'll be $200.00 richer!!!
Cheers,
Kevin out
|
|
|
Post by bauhaus on Aug 21, 2008 12:27:11 GMT -4
So, Kevin what you're telling me is that all I have to do is drop a Herald and bring Skulltaker or Karanak, win the Crossroads and you'll give me $200?
I might have to take you up on that!
|
|
|
Post by kevinc on Aug 21, 2008 13:05:19 GMT -4
That's right Dave!
|
|
|
Post by robk on Aug 21, 2008 13:35:21 GMT -4
Just so were clear..... Stumpy does count as a special character, as he is named and kicks so much ass he should be banned from the entire Warhammer Universe. ;D
|
|
|
Post by vectorawx3 on Aug 21, 2008 13:38:43 GMT -4
Admiral Testiclese and Seaman Stane are the two special characters I always field. They should be worth $400 WHEN I win the GT.
|
|
punk
Junior Member
Posts: 87
|
Post by punk on Aug 21, 2008 14:34:57 GMT -4
My feeling is if a player wants to ban units, tournaments are not for that kind of player, that kind of player should stay home and agree with their mates which units should not be allowed, etc in their own games. If people feel the need to take a SC they should play it in one off games or say a campaign, rather than daily play, and much less than in tournament play. I think we have the same point of view just at different ends of the spectrum. I respect that. IF this THEN that does not always add up when we are talking about something that has many outside factors that equate to winning overall. I happen to believe that there are different tiers of SC's, like armies in the realm of WHFB, that can reside on one end of the scale and another at the opposite end of the spectrum. I wouldn't say that all SC's are good or bad, again it isn't black or white. From a T/O point of view, it is hard to tell a person "yes you can bring this", and tell another; "No you can't bring this." At that point we are just discriminant against specific characters and builds. In order to have it appeal to the majority, it is best to just say NO SC's, it makes it a lot easier to discriminate against all SCs then just some. Which is why I respect your point of view of: To make it easy, we do not agree, I think it would be hard pressed to make an attempt at proving either one of us wrong. But to say that SCS are fair, is a little questionable, even more so when you have SCs running around such a Thorek, Morghr(sp) Epidimus...etc If someone won, would they really be proving you wrong, is it going to make you do a 180 the way you look at things? I doubt it, I could be wrong.
|
|
|
Post by robk on Aug 21, 2008 14:50:45 GMT -4
The real question............
Is Kevin fielding a SC for Crossroads?
|
|
punk
Junior Member
Posts: 87
|
Post by punk on Aug 21, 2008 14:56:43 GMT -4
The real question............ Is Kevin fielding a SC for Crossroads? Or is it just going to start a rush and flood the field of SC's. ;D I guess we are going to see a spike in the # of SC's taken
|
|
|
Post by bauhaus on Aug 21, 2008 15:59:54 GMT -4
Punk, I certainly disagree with you about special characters. They are just as much a part of the Warhammer World as a pair of Steam Tanks, a dragon or a Bretonnian Lord IMHO. They are all a fun part of the game that has to be tactically dealt with (if possible)!
There are a few “broken” SC just as there are a few OTT army builds. Hopefully most of us realize that we have to pay for our special characters (and many are not worth it) and just as any unit or mundane/magic item might be a good or a bad buy we players take what seems to be priced the best and afford us the best winning opportunities.
I’m not sure that any of the special characters available to Khorne are worth the price but I’m happy to play one for fun (either in a tournament or not.) Seems like Kevin is willing to make it even more fun by putting some money on it!
PS this is a tournament that allows special characters!
|
|
|
Post by bdickj on Aug 22, 2008 9:02:36 GMT -4
Special characters are dumb as shit and are simply a crutch for people who think it's neat to buy into GW's bullshit "fairness" scale.
Let's look at Morghur: He creates spawns that are worth no points. He can't be shot. And kills alot of astuff touching him before they can swing. Fair?
Teclis: Sure he's a paper bag. But generating 17-20 PD per turn with Teclis is pretty fucking ridiculous.
Cayadryan: Kill him and suffer d6 wounds, with no saves?
The Masque: Balanced? She's 10x better than a regular slaanesh herald, and costs LESS.
Kevin, sorry bro, they definately ARE NOT balanced.
|
|
punk
Junior Member
Posts: 87
|
Post by punk on Aug 22, 2008 10:57:11 GMT -4
Punk, I certainly disagree with you about special characters. They are just as much a part of the Warhammer World as a pair of Steam Tanks, a dragon or a Bretonnian Lord IMHO. They are all a fun part of the game that has to be tactically dealt with (if possible)! Dave, I'm not sure if it is a matter of agreeing or disagreeing. I'm not negating the fact that taking special characters can by fun. Sure there are OTT SC's and army builds, I think we all get that. I think you hit the nail right on the head. We can look at some SC's and we can see that players are getting a great deal of "bang for their buck" in regards to what the SC's do compared their counterparts. Really?, Your not sure if any Khorne SC's are worth the price? Skulltaker comes to mind He is the same point cost as a herald who is geared out. Why wouldn't you take him? His one down side is he does not give the unit the Locus ability. But his abilities far surpass the down side, and for the same points. I like that this tournament allows SC's, I think that is why we all enjoy Indys so much because they have a variety of rules scoring systems which keeps us on our toes and satisfies our gamer ADD. Again the people who reside in each respective camp are going to have their own opinions, agree or disagree, in won't matter. People will still view a select few SC's as OTT, same as we view a select few army builds as OTT. If a SC wins the system, what is it really going to show, same if an army without one wins it? If 99% of the field took a SC, and a SC won overall, would it make a point? Not at all. So if 99% of the field is not going take a SC, is it going to make a point if one doesn't win overall with a SC? Not at all. My initial reaction, with only a month away, I can see people toying with the idea of taking SC's with the idea that they can line there wallet with an extra two bills. I sure did. Less stuff to finish painting, chance at getting my room paid for and to prove Kevin wrong...sounds good to me! Thanks, but no thanks. Hope you win it Dave or anyone else for that matter who is going to field a SC! ~Aaron~
|
|