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Post by Murdock on Jul 20, 2015 17:56:04 GMT -4
Open discussion for the house rule changes for the fall 2015 Crossroads GT.
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Post by breezly on Jul 20, 2015 22:10:05 GMT -4
Hey Corey, I like the changes.
Question on Magic...what is the maximum dice allowed on a Bound Item? I assume 2 (Wizard 0 + 2 dice)
Also, I had a game of Kings of War today. It was a fun game, different than Warhammer with quite a bit of subtle tactical challenges. I am interested to see how the community responds.
--Bart
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Post by hivemind on Jul 20, 2015 23:12:54 GMT -4
Please clear up for me how many comp choices for Ogres each Ironblaster is.
Thanks!
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Post by Murdock on Jul 21, 2015 11:30:08 GMT -4
Bart - Good question, Level 0 wizards can't cast, so we will treat all bound spells as a Level 1 wizard, so 3 dice max for them.
Hivemind, the first Ironblaster costs 1 comp choice, second Ironblaster should cost 3 additional comp choices, it is an accidental omission from the document, it will be updated shortly.
Thanks, Corey
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Post by chrono on Jul 21, 2015 12:38:09 GMT -4
How does the Hellheart affect miscasts?
Does this miscast table supersede different miscast tables (ie pink horrors)?
Can rebound be only with the caster who was nominated to dispell and can it be a spell previously cast/remains in play?
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Post by hivemind on Jul 21, 2015 13:26:44 GMT -4
the first Ironblaster costs 1 comp choice, second Ironblaster should cost 3 additional comp choices Goddammit. :/ Anyway, here's my thoughts. Take them with large grains of salt as I'm very new. Formations/Conga Lines: great change VPs: works for me Steadfast: makes sense Who May Attack: I applaud your movement towards de-cheesifying things Monsters/Chariots with Riders: this seems really strong. But I play Ogres and my monsters eat ass, and imma cannon everyone else's monsters, so whatever I guess. Challenges: this is a fine clarification Magic: -- 12 power dice max: fine -- casting dice limit: that's different. I think I like it. At least, I don't see any reason to hate it. -- ward saves: ok, sure -- Look Out Sir!: yep -- New miscast table: I can live without this. It seems to make spellcasting much less dangerous for the armies that take a half-dozen (or more) casters and units that cast. It also makes my Hellheart much less good. -- Lore of Undeath: good deal, very fair Line of Sight: that all is very sensible and playable General Army Restrictions: that all seems fine Army Specific Comp: I'm not competent to comment on anything but the Ogres list. That said... -- First Ironblaster=1: No one's NOT going to take an Ironblaster, unless you're some kinda retard that plays four mammoths, and that kinda retarded list isn't going to be in contention anyway. Why comp the first one at all, if you know EVERYONE is going to bring it? -- Second Ironblaster=3: Just call this one four or five choices and be done with it. Remove both entries and replace them with "Two Ironblasters = 4 comp points". -- Hellheart=2: no one's taking this with your changes to Magic. It was primarily useful versus things like the Vampire or Elf bus with 3-5 casters in it. The way Hellheart works (at the beginning of the Magic phase) there's not even a chance of getting a result higher than 10, and essentially no chance of killing an enemy caster (unless they're a 1-wound caster), why would I even take this thing now? -- Crown of Command, Rune Maw=1 each: this is fine, particularly with Rune Maw being errata'd to work against things like Purple Sun -- 1 or more Slaughtermasters=1: I feel the same way about this as I do the Ironblaster comp. Everyone is taking a Slaughtermaster, so this feels pro forma. On the other hand, if you don't comp a buncha little things, then everyone just brings two Ironblasters. You have to make people spend points somewhere, I guess, and if you're married to the five point comp, this is how you do it for Ogres. -- Unit of Gnoblars above 3=1 each: fuck Gnoblars. My list is gonna be: +1 Death caster +1 Ironblaster +1 Crown of Command +1 Rune Maw +1 Slaughtermaster The only real compromise I'd have to make is if I was dead set on taking two cannons or Hellheart. Since the repercussions of your new miscast table on Hellheart are so severe anyway, this comp gives me everything I can reasonably want without making any sacrifices I care about. Anyway, my two cents. *clink clink*
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Post by narenzade on Jul 21, 2015 16:44:30 GMT -4
ETC works great. Let's just run ETC. People are comfortable with it and it's been played for most of the year on the Masters Circuit.
I don't like the magic phase getting it from both ends. Miscasts are worse and LoS and MR from bomb spells?
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Post by Murdock on Jul 21, 2015 22:41:36 GMT -4
Roll on the miscast table, no dice have been used to cast, so don't add anything to the 2D6 roll.
Nope
No wizards can attempt to dispell an IF spell, so it can be any enemy caster. Yes, it can be a previously cast spell, or a RIP spell. But it would end the RIP spell effects from the previous casting.
This is a fair point, and worth looking at. Given the new table, maybe the Hellheart isn't worth a comp point at all now... more to come on this.
And thank you for all the feedback Hivemind.
Both reasons I wanted to do something else. 8th edition will die a slow death if we keep playing it as is. My hope is to do something different and shake it up to keep the game interesting and evolving. It may not work and even with rules tweeks, Warhammer may continue to slide into obscurity, but we sure can try and breath some new life into the game.
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Post by breezly on Jul 22, 2015 10:11:45 GMT -4
Both reasons I wanted to do something else. 8th edition will die a slow death if we keep playing it as is. My hope is to do something different and shake it up to keep the game interesting and evolving. It may not work and even with rules tweeks, Warhammer may continue to slide into obscurity, but we sure can try and breath some new life into the game. FWIW, I am not a huge fan of ETC. I play in it, because that is what was chosen by the tournament. I understand it's place in the world, but to me, it was not a great version of Warhammer. I like the fact that with 8th dead, TO's can work on adjustments to the core rules that were, well, off in my opinion. You guys that spend a lot of time on the tourney circuit may be more comfortable with the rules, but for people like me who get pulled into it, I tolerate it to get a good weekend of competitive gaming in. Two things need to happen in order to keep Warhammer as we knew it alive. First, is to make some core changes to the game that have been a bit odd up until now. I think the rules pack takes a strong step in the right direction. I don't agree with everything, but we need to play something to see how it goes. Second, and I think more importantly, the different factions that are taking a run at 'fixing' 8th need to come together on a common ground. There can't be 5 different versions of the game out there or else it will fracture and die. I was considering dropping the tourney until the rules pack came out. It does give it a bit of new life. One thing that AoS did do well with the warscrolls was to make every unit viable...this was exciting to me, until I actually put it on the table and played that 'game'. If you can make tweaks to the game that is needed, bring the communities together as best you can, and make each unit viable, then I think you have a chance. If you stick with ETC 8th, then you would lose me honestly. Maybe not a big loss on the scene, but does go one small step in the direction of obscurity. --Bart
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Post by nermal on Jul 22, 2015 20:38:53 GMT -4
Will the armies in ETC that get bonus points get them in your comp as well? Also, can beastmen use marks?
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Post by Murdock on Jul 22, 2015 21:50:58 GMT -4
No bonus points, but yes, Beastmen will be able to take marks.
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Post by hivemind on Jul 22, 2015 23:17:16 GMT -4
You're really married to this 25% Lords restriction, eh? That restriction means that I can only take two Lords if one of them's naked...
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Post by Murdock on Jul 24, 2015 15:16:34 GMT -4
Yes, I think the 50% lords and heroes was one of the worst ideas GW had from a gameplay perspective.
The changes I'm doing for fall Crossroads are meant to be simple to follow, and quick to implement while addressing what I feel are some of the major issues with 8th edition. I would happily re-write the rules in total, but there is a group of Europeans already doing that, so I'm not interested in duplicating work. And as Bart said, you can't have 5 different bodies of people all re-working the rules in a vacuum from each other. There needs to be a community standard for the game to be viable and evolve. I may not like everything that is coming out of the european group, but no one will ever like all aspects of a game system, regardless of who puts it out. I'm just happy that someone is working on it and this group has the motivation and the backing of a large portion of the community which will help with standardization.
The other option is Kings of War, which is a fully supported game, and while definitely different could be a very viable option as well.
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noah
New Member
Posts: 45
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Post by noah on Jul 24, 2015 16:09:18 GMT -4
With no real notice on the lack of ninth, I'm glad you got this out quickly Corey. There is still a good amount of time until the event and list submission, want to pick an arbitrary date to lock this comp? Now that it's out people will catch little things (like the Hellheart) that could use some tweaks. Some thoughts: People are used to the 50% lords and heroes, I'm not sad to see it go. It's just something different. I don't think you could keep it and include combined profiles. Beastmen - it's hard to come up with a good reason to take them under most comp packs, marks are a nice addition for the players who played with the old book but without more you aren't pulling them from the bottom tier. If I was bringing beastmen that'd be my expectation anyway, so who cares? Nobody is bringing beastmen to crush face. Magic changes - if we're making all these magic changes, can we please kick the casket and war altar in the nuts? Being able to 6 dice these with no downside is annoying as all hell. Let them break or something. The player packs you give out are generally my favorites, including the most important changes in them (in game effects, like the miscast table) would be really helpful. My comp wishlist: Giants and dragon ogres in core for my army. Pretty please? Using empties as pieces of impassable terrain would also be awesome.
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Post by plasmamike2 on Jul 24, 2015 20:25:11 GMT -4
I like most of the changes.
The combined mount and rider profile scares me a bit. Anything on a dragon with a 4+ will be nightmarish. Chaos lord with glittering scales, dawnstone, soul feeder and 4+ ward.... so 5/6 to hit, 6 to wound, 1+ armor re-rollable, and a 4+ ward, and regenerating wounds... yikes.
Miscast table with power dice modifier is a nice change. Is the test to kill the caster still 4+? I would have preferred if there was still a 5 dice power limit.
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