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Post by kevinc on Jul 26, 2007 10:02:25 GMT -4
I totally agree with Marster!
Regardless of whatever you guys are squabbling about, at the end of the day if your playing Warhammer how it is intended to be played - your army list should be closed.
For players that really prefer 'open' lists, there are magic items that help you with this, buy them for your characters if it is so important to you.
If your interested in winning the tournament, don't you want to win by playing Warhammer how it is intended, rather than seeking an advantage by knowing everything in your opponent's army list?
Closed list is another disadvantage for Special Characters, btw. If I bring Thorgrim Grudgebearer with my Dwarf army, you can look at the Dwarf book and read all about him. If I bring my own Dwarf Lord - you have no idea how powerful he may or may not be. Will you have the balls to challenge him with your general? Maybe he has the 'axe of general destroyers', maybe he just has an axe with +1S. The point is you don't know and nor should you.
Marster plays Night Goblins and his opponents should not know where or even if he has any fanatics. Part of the tactics in defeating a Night Goblin army is to try and locate and draw out his fanatics using your skill as a general, not by reading his army list before the game and know where they are.
I'm not going to this tournament because of the ban on Special Characters, but if I were, I would certainly ding anyone who insisted that I show my list before the game.
Kevin out
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Post by sergrum on Jul 26, 2007 10:38:20 GMT -4
Like i said in a 5 game tournament by game 3-5 all the top players list will be known. Closed or not.
I'll play how the tournament organizer tells me too. Special characters? I hate them anyways. Open Lists? I don't got much to hide.
If you don't like it, don't go. But docking somene because they follow tournament rules is not right IMO.
Sergrum
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Post by mauleed on Jul 26, 2007 10:40:10 GMT -4
Ed, if I put down 31 gobbos which never did anything (better yet, say they fled off the board, top of turn one, from a burning head), then we played a game in which I massacred you, then we caught the mistake, and I offered you the massacre, would you take it? It's impolite to answer a questions with a question, No, I wouldn't. But that's irrelevant.
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Post by vectorawx3 on Jul 26, 2007 10:42:56 GMT -4
Good to know. I'll make sure to bump up all my units with an extra model or three here and there when I play you.
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Post by mauleed on Jul 26, 2007 10:43:00 GMT -4
Regardless of whatever you guys are squabbling about, at the end of the day if your playing Warhammer how it is intended to be played - your army list should be closed. Watch out for Kevin, he has ESP and reads game designers minds. Kevin, you can't possibly know that warhammer is intended to only be played with closed lists. I agree it's intended to be able to sometimes play with closed lists, but you simply can not show that's the only way it's intended. So you're saying that your opinion of how the game should be played is now a rule, and want to ding people because of it. And that's unsporting, so I'd have to ding YOU!
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Post by kevinc on Jul 26, 2007 11:32:09 GMT -4
Regardless of whatever you guys are squabbling about, at the end of the day if your playing Warhammer how it is intended to be played - your army list should be closed. Watch out for Kevin, he has ESP and reads game designers minds. Kevin, you can't possibly know that warhammer is intended to only be played with closed lists. I agree it's intended to be able to sometimes play with closed lists, but you simply can not show that's the only way it's intended. So you're saying that your opinion of how the game should be played is now a rule, and want to ding people because of it. And that's unsporting, so I'd have to ding YOU! ---------------Ed the game is obviously designed with closed lists in mind, hence the magic items and spells that allow you to see 'hidden' things. I'm not saying you cannot play in other ways. I'm saying I like to play closed lists. And tournament rule or not, it is ungentlemanly, IMO, to ask someone to see their army list before the game. That's how I feel and I doubt anyone will change my mind about it. That being said, I'm not saying my way is the best way, I'm saying that's how I play and that's how the game, under basic rules, is to be played. I don't want to see my opponent's list for any reason before the game. As for dinging, it’s all relative, always has been and always will be as long as it's in the opponent's hands. Some people will ding someone simply for taking a Dragon (a completely fine unit to take in a game of Fantasy Battles). I personally disagree with dinging the Dragon simply because they have one in their list, but I cannot impose my views of the game and/or tournaments on others. If people insist on seeing my list before the game, that is unsportsmanlike to me, they will get dinged. Kevin out
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Post by mauleed on Jul 26, 2007 11:41:42 GMT -4
Well, just don't complain when you eat a zero too, that's all.
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Post by kevinc on Jul 26, 2007 12:10:57 GMT -4
Well, just don't complain when you eat a zero too, that's all. ---------------All's fair in love and war! Kevin out
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Post by Murdock on Jul 26, 2007 16:08:08 GMT -4
The simplest thing to be said, is that going with open lists prevents more problems than it creates when at large tournaments.
If one doesn't want to look at someones list, then that is each player's prerogative.
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Post by vectorawx3 on Jul 26, 2007 16:08:27 GMT -4
Complain and you shall receive. Kevin, looks like you'll be heading up to the tourney after all!
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Post by Murdock on Jul 26, 2007 16:15:18 GMT -4
I thought Kevin wanted closed lists?
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Post by vectorawx3 on Jul 26, 2007 16:40:19 GMT -4
He wants closed lists. But the special characters are the reason that he wasn't going to attend. Closed lists would be nice, though.
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Post by ring87 on Jul 26, 2007 18:52:16 GMT -4
In reality on one person wanted to see my full list (magic items, list scrolls) at the 2 GT's I have been to. So It's all good.
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Post by marster on Jul 27, 2007 23:52:45 GMT -4
I play largely night goblins (I played High Elves until my army was swiped), but I enjoy surprises in every army I play against. It's the spirit of the game primarily. It's always been an important part of the fun of the game for me. Like, when Kevin used to use the old Mork's War Banner, it would never have been fun if I *knew* which unit had it. It was far more fun when I didn't expect Teclis' head to blow up like dynamite in a cracker-jack box. Kev, I like the word "ungentlemanly" a lot in what you wrote. Didn't Jervis describe Warhammer primarily as "A Gentleman's Game?" Yeah. That's the rub for us, I think. Sadly, it's become unfortunately clear here that Common Trolls are under-priced and over-prolific at 40 pts, so I'll just look forward to meeting you all at the game and enjoying a proper bout face to face instead of an electronic one where manners fall away too quickly. Very Best, -Marster
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Post by mantiszero on Jul 27, 2007 23:58:16 GMT -4
Ed you didnt comment on being called a Warmonger???
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