So how much of a hit are special characters

[gjnoronh]

Okay I'm sorry to nater on about comp but I'm really excited about being able to bring special characters to an event (would be the first time in over a decade I think) but I really don't have a framework for what's a comp hit for WoC/BoC and for DoC outside of the hated few (Kairos, Skulltaker, Masque, Epidemius)

We know what a level 4 DP WoC MoT is but what's some of these other guys?

So in general how much of a hit do you think are some of those character options?

Kholek? Big nasty but can't hide in units - is that a big hit?

the non flying bloodthirster character from DoC (both armies gain hatred)

Valkia?

[jchrisobrien]

I can't give you any exact advice, Gary. I know that you are an experienced tournament player, and have seen many armies. Given that, look at what the special characters do in the list that you devise for them. How much harder is that SC over a regular lord or hero? There is a big difference between Korhil and Teclis (to use a HE example). Gaulrach makes much more of an impact than Festus. Armies will be judged accordingly.

The more bad-ass a character, or the more it changes how an army works (ie Epidiemus), the bigger a comp hit you will suffer. That's the best advice I can give you (or any player).

[gjnoronh]

Good stuff man - though I worry that comp being in the eye of the beholder we could have some honest splits in the 'council's' rating of a character.

Given that the NE folks pretty much hit the same events and boards our local standards on comp are fairly predictable (i.e. the comp scoring at the Big Show eyeballed about right to most folks) some of these special characters I look at and I'm still not sure how good they are - aside from the obviously broken folks. I mean when I first look at the WoC book I didn't think nurgle buboes spam is broken - but after some time you do get that feedback from players that establishes a mindset.

Also part of it may be years fof US WFB angst about special characters engrained in my mind : SC = bad that I'm just struggling to get myself out of the shell of thinking that and looking at these guys more critically.

So not looking for comments from the judging team as much as hey players coming to this event what do you think about these guys?

[xmbk]

Bring the SC to have fun, leave them at home if you want to win Overall.

I personally think it's great that Corey's allowing them. They add variety and change the dynamics of matchups. Are you really worried that your comp score is going to be more than a point or 2 lower than you think it should be (after factoring in that we all overestimate our personal comp)?

[robk]

All of my characters are special! ;D

[jchrisobrien]

You're special, Rob.

[robk]

Well... I am a specialist (Actual job title).

[xmbk]

I would certainly call someone who performs Prince Albert's for a living a specialist.

[gjnoronh]

I think I'm just flumoxed about being allowed them and have 'special characters = cheese' so engrained in my soul I'm flabbergasted at the opportunity.

Gamewide I think there's a few obviously broken ones - a few that are big and nasty but expensive appropriately and then lots and lots I look at and say 'so is this more of a comp hit than another units of knights'

I think the Valkia conversion I've been thinking about since the WoC book came out is probably going to have to be built and fielded. . . but Festus and Kholek both have special places in my heart and models on my shelf that might work (the original dragon ogre model from 1989 or so - and the new Nurgle sorcerer on foot that is the totally non functional build but cool model I'd like to paint.)

Gary

[xmbk]

Go for it, Gary.

Is Valkia on a 25 or 40?

[arash]

it doesn't say. So in true warhammer fashion, everyone puts her on a 25mm.

[xmbk]

Well, by definition anyone fielding her is a powergaming a-hole, so that's what we should expect.

<This post brought to you by the Make Gary More Paranoid Citizens Group>

[gjnoronh]

Aside from fluff suggesting she's a DP i think rules wise she's a chaos lord who happens to fly - so 25. Though I suppose you could make an argument for 20 She is a chick you know and skinnier than those manly men.

[gjnoronh]

Okay so here's the list

Valkia

Exalted hero MoT/Disk (30)/glaive of putrefaction/golden eye (50)/Shield 5
Sorcerer barded steed/1 scroll
Sorcerer barded steed/1 scroll

Some decent force projection with the two fliers and 4 DD 2 scrolls gives me some shot against VC


Chaos Warriors/shield 15 full command (30)/Rapturous standard (25)/Mark of slaanesh

Chaos warriors/shields/halberds 15 Full command (30)/banner of rage (35)

Marauder Horsemen/flails 6 musician/MoS(16)
Marauder Horsemen/flails 6 musician/MoS(16)
Marauder Horsemen/flails 6 musician/MoS(16)

Chaos Hounds 5
Chaos Hounds 5

Giant
Warshrine/MoT

total 2235 points
models 64 wound count 77
PD 4 DD 4

So I'd have to paint up Valkia/all the marauder cav and the warshrine probably touch up that disc rider if I can still find him as he didn't get fielded in sixth edition. Making one of the warrriors units chosen would give me another opportunity to use Valkia's reroll EOTG ability but would cost about 70 with favor of the gods and pricing differences

I'm wondering if I need three units of marauder cav with two fliers available - dropping them lets me get up to 6 power dice or add in some choppy bits like a unit of knights or a chariot or two

Other bits sitting in the case painted up
2 chariots
6 or so knights (with lances. . .)
many more hounds
more chaos warriors
2 ogres
2 dragon ogres

Working two of the weekends between now and the crossroads, might have baby duties another as it appears my wife is working... .

[gjnoronh]

Working on rebasing the army and it's going fairly well. I need to do some more reading on snow bases.

I may just dump the marauder horsemen to make this an easier one to do and just substitute spamming chaos hounds as early drops, maybe add in a Steed of slaanesh for one of the mages.