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Post by jchrisobrien on Mar 3, 2013 11:33:46 GMT -4
I have the new book. Just play a couple of games with the army to get a feel for it. There is more random involved, but there are some good power controls on the army. No dispel scrolls, Inspiring Presence and Hold Your Ground only work on units with the same mark. Magic items are random, and there's the Reign of Chaos table. Maybe you shouldn't comp anything on the daemon book. Just be ready to have some FAQ answers for situations. This thread warhammer.org.uk/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=111785 lists some of the FAQ questions people are already asking.
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noah
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Post by noah on Mar 3, 2013 11:45:26 GMT -4
I haven't gotten to play against/with the book yet, but I agree with Chris. Sure, the cannon looks scary and the table is annoying but there are plenty of downsides... a lot of them being expensive heralds.
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keithb
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Post by keithb on Mar 5, 2013 17:40:56 GMT -4
I haven't gotten to play against/with the book yet, but I agree with Chris. Sure, the cannon looks scary and the table is annoying but there are plenty of downsides... a lot of them being expensive heralds. There are no downsides to the cannon, except flaming.
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Post by kbolster54321 on Mar 6, 2013 7:59:05 GMT -4
Down sides of cannon...
1. Most likely cant use generals leadership 2. Most likely wont use bsb re-rolls 3. 50/50 chance of taking wounds if a bad roll on the reign if chaos table 4. Toughness 5 instead of 7 like other war machines 5. Whole army suffers from this but I am going to add this for the cannon too; little to no magic defense
There is 5 and I haven't even finished my first cup of joe.
If you ask my opinion is this one unit under costed I would say yes BUT I honestly believe that most other units in the book are over costed (especially heralds) so there is balance there.
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noah
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Post by noah on Mar 6, 2013 8:08:06 GMT -4
Sorry, sentence structure was a bit off there Keith, I meant to the daemons. Depending on how the cannons attacks work (technically no mounts, so can the machine attack to the flank/rear>) so it could be one of the easiest models to pop with instability.
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Post by gjnoronh on Mar 6, 2013 22:01:59 GMT -4
Agree with you guys the book took a big nerf bat hit. Would you limit the cannon for this event to 0-1 or let folks take two?
I can't see the list matching up well against an ogre list limited to 0-3 of mournfangs and ironblasters total. Bloodcrushers don't seem like a match for mournfangs.
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Post by kbolster54321 on Mar 7, 2013 9:20:47 GMT -4
Gary I agree. I think people are still suffering from 7th edition where DoC where way OP and OK was under powered. It's really amazing that OK is 0-3 for MF and IB's and yet DoC only get one cannon.
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keithb
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Post by keithb on Mar 7, 2013 15:33:32 GMT -4
No for this event, considering the amount of cannons everyone else can take, I don't see why demons can't have 2.
1. Most likely cant use generals leadership
Only relevant for Break checks or spirit leech(where you have a 3++).
2. Most likely wont use bsb re-rolls
Only relevant for Break checks.
3. 50/50 chance of taking wounds if a bad roll on the reign if chaos table
How likely is that bad roll again???
4. Toughness 5 instead of 7 like other war machines
Extra wounds, better in combat, ward save.
5. Whole army suffers from this but I am going to add this for the cannon too; little to no magic defense
Irrelevant.
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Post by Murdock on Mar 7, 2013 17:11:08 GMT -4
Guys, I remind everyone that most people wanted to use the new book and were ok with quick and dirty composition in order to get something out in time for the event. And with only one "restriction" to a single cannon in an army where a cannon was never an option previously , I don't think that's a crippling hit. No one can reasonably sell the opinion that the Khorne Cannon isn't amazing and a truely mind boggling bargain.
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Post by kbolster54321 on Mar 7, 2013 18:55:33 GMT -4
Corey the issue isn't that the cannon wasn't available before. It's that lots was taken away and I think the cannon was added to the book as a way to help externally balance the book.
@ Keith: I am going to digress from our conversation on the forums. If you want to talk it over a beer then lets do it
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Post by gjnoronh on Mar 8, 2013 7:20:55 GMT -4
I actually like it a lot more than the 2008 book which was balance mess. One basic net list was the way to go. Much more diversity of options now. And you don feel like a tool for pulling it out.
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bigal
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Post by bigal on Mar 8, 2013 18:32:08 GMT -4
So demons are limited to one cannon but ogres, who have the best cannon in the game, can take two?
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keithb
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Post by keithb on Mar 11, 2013 14:03:12 GMT -4
Corey the issue isn't that the cannon wasn't available before. It's that lots was taken away and I think the cannon was added to the book as a way to help externally balance the book. @ Keith: I am going to digress from our conversation on the forums. If you want to talk it over a beer then lets do it sure thing!
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Post by notmatthew on Mar 13, 2013 10:40:27 GMT -4
First of all, I'm not playing daemons nor do I have enough new models to do so even if I wanted to.
It seems inconsistent to not comp the ironblasters while comping the khorne cannons. I think that both units should be restricted to 1.
Also, the ETC FAQ has ruled the opposite of you on the Reign of Chaos rule.
15. Demons of Chaos
1. Do you only apply Reign of Chaos effects on the Demon player’s turn? Do all enemy units need to test for every Chaos God, regardless of Mark?
A. Yes. Yes.
Pretty much all signs point to 'all enemies' in regards to the Reign of Chaos.
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Post by Murdock on Mar 13, 2013 13:38:40 GMT -4
Fortunately I am not running an ETC event But in all seriousness, all who pushed to have the new book used for this event knew in advance that comp restricitons would be harsher now than they might be down the road just due to the "newness" of the book, and not having had the opportunity to see it actually played on the table. With Ogres, you know pretty much exactly what your getting with the army, they've been out a while now, they play pretty much the same. I'm not comping the Ironblaster differently than the Khorne canon because it is better or worse(it's worse ) But because the Ogre list as a whole is a known quantity at this point, the Demons are a whole new bird. So for everyone who is up in arms over the cannon being restricted to 1, realize that the list is new, and that this is the only restriction to the book. Restrictions will likely change over time as the book becomes more familiar, but for now, it is what it is.
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